Suggested Adjustment Procedure for Oval Track - KONI NA We were racing dirt oval about a month ago, and then I tried this scale system . Corner weighing will tell you how much overall mass your car has as well as the mass present at each wheel. racers discovered they could insert an actual wedge into the left rear If the car feels loose throughout the corner, lower both track bars evenly. 1. for the front and rear sway bars and installed them with my girl friend sitting height and the shocks set to the exact same spring perch height and measured between the outside bottom rim edge is 67.75" front and 69.875" Avoids a mess on scale pads and tires,prevents dirt fromcontaminating lube. All of these measurements are widened by the Moving or removing weight is one Replacing a heavy battery with a light weight one allowed me to get close . On oval track cars, cross-weight is usually used in conjunction with stagger (where the right rear tire is larger in circumference than the left rear tire) to balance handling. Struts and trailing arms generally arent great in this case as they have a lot of inherent bind. More stagger usually loosens the handling in left turns, so more cross-weight is used to tighten it up. 2. I vary mine alot depending on conditions, so should I sayset them where I would at the beginning of an average day for autoX? Dirt adds weight, binds suspension parts and hides potential problems > The bearings come well oiled and attract a lot of dirt. On oval track cars, cross-weight is usually used in conjunction with stagger (where the right rear tire is larger in circumference than the left rear tire) to balance handling. Bite should be positive for oval racing, Wedge = In circle track racing, we often, and almost always, have different rate springs on each corner of the car. It seems to me that if there's bind in the suspension that's preventing all the force of the springs to come into play, the weight read by the scales will be less than the correct value. 11. Well there is a bit more to it than that. Step 1 - Determine Sprung Weight. Even if you pay someone a small amount of money for their help, it will be far better than buying the scales yourself. very close to ideal. extra weight is on the left rear and right front tires which gives them more This will pitch the vehicle's. 1) Tweak: Tweak is the amount of weight on the LR as opposed to the RR. The front is usually the lowest point on the car and most sanctions maintain a minimum ride height rule. An analogy which is commonly used is to imagine that the car is a four-legged table. cross weight - iRacing.com Wiki them for the corner balance. I needed 3 linoleum tiles (0.045" thick Do this by making equal changes to the adjusters on each side. The springs OTOH exhibit little or no friction loss when compressed or extended. Adjust the cross weight for more extreme conditions or different circumstances. Put the car on ride height blocks without the shocks in the car and then measure the shock length from center of bolt to center of bolt. The roll center is an imaginary point around which the rear of the race car rolls. what he means is he's adding weight to the left rear and right front RC Dirt Oval Basic Setup & Tuning Guide (21.5, dirt oval, GFRP, Custom Works, Purpose Built) - YouTube 0:00 / 43:10 Dirt Oval Setup & Tuning Tutorials RC Dirt Oval Basic Setup &. The Circle Track Analyzer is a computer program that simulates most any car you can design, racing on most any size oval track. balancing see my corner balance how-to and and have shocks available for all forms of racing - dirt and asphalt sprint cars, dirt and asphalt . Basically so long as I don't completely overcook a corner entry, it does better than any car this heavy has any right to Good stuff. over). The height of the rear roll center (and the front also) is critical to handling. Then there is what I do for FWD stuff That is forget the rear weights entirely, and just balance the fronts to be equal. Most people find this out pretty quickly. That math gives us a percentage number to . Wheel Offset Changes. used linoleum tiles to shim two of my scales to get them all level. battery (-15lbs), ride height lowered approximately 1 inch, all 4 Bilstein PSS9 coil over If you don't have adjustable end links on your Rebound adjustments will allow you to alter your car to a corner entry condition without affecting corner exit or vice versa. Wedge Delta should be positive for oval racing. At the rear, your rear control link angles are critical to maintaining rear alignment and determining rear steer angles and/or reducing rear steer altogether. Funny. You should also complete this process with approximately the amount of gas with which you will be racing. knew I needed to put the car on the scales. front left and Setting Up Your Traxxas Slash | Traxxas Typical racing scales will calculate this for you automatically, but you can rig up something that will work using a single scale and 3 equal sized spacers to get a good estimate. You will never find a perfectly level spot at the track, so don't waste time looking, unless you can set up your scale pads and set up ramps level. "If your car is really tight or really loose during hot laps, you have to take a look at the things that are going to make the biggest difference. 50% then Wedge Delta will be 0. Mudboss Setup #3 - Traxxas Slash transmission setup and diff oil for oval racing Oval RC 216K subscribers Subscribe 812 Share 51K views 2 years ago #diff #setup #mudboss Traxxas Slash. 4. The following weights are with the front Comptech adjustable To find LR weight: Hub stands are a great idea just for ease of access, but removing friction is an added benefit. unbalanced--it will turn better in one direction than in the other (all other Yeah generally its the same stagger 9/10 times. If you get the car neutral in left turns, it oversteers in right turns. weights into the spreadsheet (the blue numbers in the left "Corner Weights" Look at the car as a chair with a short leg, if you want it to turn equally well left and right aim for 50/50 diagonal. Even 1/8 inch difference will make a difference, especially if you have For our example we use: LF 200, RF 250 - 250 200 = 1.25 multiplier for the front. The following are screen shots from the For ovals we want a I just back all of the damping off totally. If we remember, or record this number, then we can easily make changes in the future to get to our intended crossweight percent fast and easy. Ask your chassis builder or establish what you want and decide that these will be what you run from now on. Motors / ESC: Any 1/10th scale motor/esc combo allowed. Your ride heights determine your arm angles up front, as well as the cambers, and, to a lesser degree-excuse the pun-the caster angles. Unsure about autox. Or use an automotive tuning shop. Just to confirm the theory I checked the corner weights with If you increase the amount of cross weight or left side, you will decrease the amount of bite in the kart. Weight can be moved around at the track to fine tune the handling characteristics of the chassis. RC Dirt Oval Car Setup & Tuning Guide [5 Key Steps] For high banked tracks, the front spring rate must be increased and it is often necessary to. (Right Front + Left Rear) / (Left Front + Right Rear), When balanced the Cross Weight % will = 50%. Auto-Ware (Autoware Inc) auto racing reference library Are they adjustable? The angles are another way to set the suspension for the desired ride height and cross-weight percentage. Ok sounds good. 50% then Wedge Delta will be 0. as Left Rear Bite + Right Front Bite. suspension). right swapped). Beyond that, if your bushingsand other parts bind on the scales then they're also going to bind out on the road, so who cares? Corner Balance Calculator - Rob Robinette Bite tells us how much we I made a 4-scale system for my off-road cars. front left and your scales. On an average workbench/table that's close to level, it's probably < 3g difference per corner, which is within the tolerance of stiction / binding in a touring car. Wheel Load-We have already determined the wheel load we desire in No. Many successful race teams use corner weighting to achieve the same F/R % on both sides equal, not cross weight. racers only turn left we can balance the car for better grip in left Similarly, dirt oval cars often represent crossweight as "bite", or weight on the left-rear tire relative to the right-rear tire. Positive Caster is created when the caster line lands forward of the contact patch. ride heights after every change. I'm off by 0.1% (see numbers on left side of the spreadsheet). the sway bars because they fail so often and the bars only added a couple of If you have uneven mass on your wheels then your tyres will all have different levels of grip which can lead to an unpredictable car on circuit and make it corner faster in one direction than the other. It's a lot of For our example, we need to go from 49.8 to 54 percent. line above each scale and placed a ruler on the top oval racing world and is simply another word for Cross Weight. It is best to get 50 percent left-side weight when possible. This adds pressure to that end of the car just like putting the paper wedge underneath the table leg. 4m.net - The Most Opinionated Racing Message Board In The Universe. Get the numbers right and the percentages will follow. dry)! In our example, move the LR and RR corners down by 0.4375-inch. It also helps when shaking the car to take the bind out of the linkages. If you do have adjustable end Right now I have (IIRC) 350 lb front and 200 lb rear springs (koni sport, eibach pro line, ST anti sway bars) . Finding these values and maintaining them is at the top of the list for being consistent in your racing effort. Always record the cross-weights and ride heights for reference at the race track in case changes are needed. If we are talking of weighing a stock type vehicle, not a lot can be done since there are no adjustable parts. And if you hold the inside wheel so it can't spin, the outside wheel will turn 400rpm. Additionally, it is much more difficult to change rear percentage much, since rear weight is mostly a design function. The car should be at minimum weight, using ballast as needed to make the proper weight. There are many ways to corner balance a car. What you're saying makes sense, but I can't explain why it took so long for my car to settle into its final weight reading. Bottom line, you can strive for perfection, but ultimately youll just make yourself crazy. Plus it sounds like street and autocross pressures are about the same stagger front to rear, so it really shouldn't have a noteworthy impact. . RC Dirt Oval Basic Setup & Tuning Guide (21.5, dirt oval - YouTube another. All 4 scales must be within 1/8 of an inch. Maybe I'm over-thinking this, but I was amazed when I got my new scales, and let my car down on them for the first time. should have their spring perches in the same spot and your left rear and right To find LF weight: The design has the engine and transmission scooched over to the drivers side so the drivers side weighs more empty. That seem like a lot. 13. from +1 overall to -1): I put + 3/4 of a turn back on the Right Front and ended up turns to the Right Rear: I still needed more weight on the LF and RR so I added +4 to the LF: I still needed more so I added +2 to the RR and drove the shocks set to same length left to right (front to rear will be different). If your car has coil over adjustable shocks you should consider B. So, they don't care if the scales are level, they will get what they want from unlevel scales. (corner weights) instead of moving shims above / below spindle? decided to try 5 turns total of spring perch movement to balance the car. Take the total weight of the car in the configuration you decide on, with driver or without, and to find the corners, do the following: TVW = Total Vehicle Weight = 2,800, LSP = left side. Example: RF = 643, LR = 751, so, (643 + 751) 2,800 = 0.498, or 49.8 percent. Remember that changes in stagger, tire pressures and springs will change the ride height and alter the cross-weight percentage. Using dead strut inserts could be an option for cars with strut suspension. few inches several times on the scales before each reading though just for good I recommend you start with your car at your desired ride It's always possible that there's something wrong with my scales - I'll call their manufacturer and get their input an recommendations, and I'll let everybody know what they say. The "Corner Weight" (virtual scales) now determines the ride height and/or corner weigh . I use this technique and it I tried the to get a balanced diagonal weight on the tires. The rear weight percentage is found in a similar manner: Add the LR and the RR weight together and divide the sum by the total weight. right swapped). There is work involved in going fast for the full race and racing other racers clean. You can see the article here: Now that the car has the correct ride heights and weight distribution for your setup, you need to make sure those don't change at the track. And don't ever believe the track scales. So we turn the RF adjuster up (to lower that corner) 2.5 turns and the LF down (to raise that corner) 2.5 turns. Always Dirt track racing in Australia has a history dating back to the 1920s and 1930s. not to push it off the scales, to unload the suspension (as the car is So, we are not reinventing the wheel here, just refining the process. It is best to make small changes at each corner, instead of a big change at one corner. You can estimate your car's center of gravity More stagger usually loosens the handling in left turns, so more cross-weight is used to tighten it up. One of the problems with cross-weight is that it will change the handling balance from a left to a right turn. I use 2x6 wood planks as ramps to drive the car onto For example, if your initial setup is 52 percent cross-weight, and you want 50 percent cross-weight, lowering the right front or left rear corner will decrease cross-weight percentage. Calculate the spring rate multiples. You can also estimate your car's Its important to measure and note your Lowering the cross weight does the opposite of raising the cross weight. I used a laser level to project a horizontal Do not adjust any other wheel's spacing. If you go to a tuning shop that provides this service, estimate that it will cost you $90 $150 to have them corner weight the car for you. < Enter your corner weights in pounds or kilos and click 'Calculate'. Even 1/8 inch difference will make a difference, especially if you have Make small changes at the track, and make only one change at a time. A common example of caster is a shopping cart. Still, it is a worthwhile goal to strive for 50 percent left-side weight. springs to put more weight on the left rear (and right front) tires and Just make sure none of them are flat or wildly overinflated. Now, look into details about the matter. Cross Weight or Wedge. stiff springs on your coil overs. Corner_Balance.zip Excel spreadsheet. You need a nice, flat and level surface for the scales. Thanks for posting this. Typically, this adjustment will make the car tighter on corner entry or in the center, and a little looser on exit. Corner weighting can be a complicated process for you to complete without someone who is experienced helping you. Get the rear percentage as close to the manufacturer's specs as possible. Tuning with anti-dive probably won't be . 12. - can make your car dive like a dump truck or a block of wood on ice. Wedge values shown below are totally fictional. We will deal with preload on the bar later on. Take your shock, compute the spring preload, and compress the shock/spring combo to the installed spring height in your spring rate fixture. To increase rear weight, move weight as far back as possible. At the front, we will move the LF and RF adjusters up by 0.0625-inch. But if you corner and the inside wheel slows to 150rpm, the outside wheel will spin at 250rpm. retract the right rear tire which puts more weight on the Left Rear and Understanding How Weight Distribution Affects Your Race Car Thinking about this a little, the weight measured by the scales is the sum of the force of gravity acting on the car's mass, and the force of the springs pressing downward. We used to run about 1/8 of toe-in at the local tracks, and this helps the kart to cut through a corner easier in the center, where the steering is the greatest. % you run on the track. . I had the same question. Because karts have so much caster having the steering turned even slightly will cause a big change in the corner weights. This makes the cornering force balanced from left to right and offers the best performance overall. Understanding corner weights. The effect of shock rod seal frictionat the wheel will be reduced by the crank leverage ratio. You can also put two linoleum tiles with salt between them on Basically, I don't see much of a relationship between 'static' corner weighing via adjusting spring length and the addressing of fundamental L/R weight imbalance as those difference are what drive suspension and mass motions when moving. The overall effect is much like having no shock in the equation. But in a right turn, the opposite occurs and the handling is worse. If you decide to have a tuning shop complete the corner weighting and assuming you are not driving the car to the shop, disconnect the rear sway bar yourself to save the shop time and you money. Jun 7, 2018 #8 . Today's oval If you want to lower the rear of the car then retract the LR I always thought it was the other way, shock travel was increased in order to have more movement for better control over the suspension? Jun 7, 2018 #5 . Our current setup is as follows - 270 lbs Car & Driver Cross Weight = 48% Rear Weight = 61% Left Side Weight = 51% LF = 56 lbs RF = 48 lbs LR = 82 lbs RR = 83 lbs you weigh and adjust. The SRM will determine the relative changes to the spring height adjusters for weight changes. Be sure to have the weight of the driver in the seat. "There's a lot of freedom when it comes to setups using various styles of springs" in dirt late model racing, said a source. 12. Or do you just mean an old, worn-out strut? Then measure from the lower wheel rim edge up to a spot on the fender on a piece of masking tape. [Up] [CornerBalanceCalculator] [CGHeightCalculator], This calculator takes your car's four wheel weights and calculates current I have a 96 civic with a d16/manual. For information on corner By changing the weight distribution on the car, you affect the way your car will behave when cornering. %Right Weight = With the stock setup the car should have more grip How To Understand Differentials - RC Car Action Would be interesting to see how close to ideal I got it though, given how well it handles already. You can also use this online calculator to compute your corner how and why to corner balance a car. When you lower the panhard bar the rear roll center drops. One of the most important aspects of car setup is the static weight distribution and the cross-weight percentage. LR = left rear. That is equal to 7/8 turn of the adjuster. Corner Weight Calculator | GTSparkplugs We don't ever move weight around to get crossweight, but we do move weight to change our front-to-rear percent or the side percent of total weight. Then the car will move more easily from one setting to another. I've had my cars corner balanced a lot, but never really looked into the science of it. The salt acts as tiny ball bearings and will allow the tires to 13. Note your ride heights and Brake pads badly taper worn - replace. Oval if you have any of the scales connected improperly (i.e. "Springs and chassis components can be adjusted to push down on one rear wheel," Bickel said. box in the "Ride Height" section of each spreadsheet. You've mentioned "dead struts" a couple of times - what do you mean by that? Adjusting the corner weights is how we establish the crossweight percent, or what is often referred to as the amount of bite, left rear weight, or wedge. I overshot by a little so I raised the left rear spring perch by 1/2 PDF UNDERSTANDING CHASSIS ADJUSTMENTS - Longacre Racing Make sure the tires are centered on the scales. After these items are completed, it is necessary to corner weight the car. So let's study ride heights first. We should now be at, or near, the desired crossweight percent. Upgrade fluid and/or cool. typically not concerned with bite and wedge delta because they usually That method keeps the ride heights close to the same. These tell us all we need to know about the setup relative to the weight distribution. I Brake pedal is soft, spongy and/or long before the car is run: Air in the system - bleed brakes. Interested in hearing peoples' opinions and (preferably) experiences. Left Rear tire is carrying more weight so it will get more traction and A jumbo ziploc bag prevents lube from escaping when not in use. And since the necessary scales to complete this process cost in excess of $1,000, I suggest you have the corner weighting done by finding another club racer in your area who has (or knows someone with) access to scales and would be willing to help you. The new existing ride heights are LF 3.6875, RF 4.8125, LR 4.1875, RR 5.3125. The less fuel in the tank the tighter the chassis will become. 2. turn to the RF simply to raise the ride height of the front of the car. So 2.5" springs and experimenting is the way to go- I think I know that much.. . split the adjustment between all four wheels--extend the LF and RR 1 1/4 turns I was surprised to find, contrary to my experience, that the Vette came is very close to itsexpected weight as soon as it was let down on the scales, without having to take bind out of the suspension. If not, adjust the ring until you read that number and then you can install the spring in the car and be very close to the correct ride height. A good starting point would be tank of gas. Handling Guide - RACING ON THE CHEAP Check static weight before working on cross-weight. More wedge means that the car will likely understeer more in a left turn. Drag Racing. Make sure the floor is perfectly level; use shims under the scale pads if needed. You can see in the "Target Corner Weights" section that the Left Same goes for for swaybar endlinks. much Wedge Delta and make the handling worse. All of these factors play a huge part in what each corner of the car will weigh. Left Front and Right Rear but you'll have to test to find out what works best. need to roll the car back and forth a few inches several times, being careful 7. You can see that the leverage ratio in the crank link reduces coilover(and thus shock) travel, and Since the front and rear shocks are of different lengths you Recheck the ride heights and adjust to fine tune, making changes to the front and rear at the same time. If you have 50/50 weight distribution to begin with the note that crossweighting will do the exact same thing. Wedge is a term used in the When Wedge is balanced at Setup Routine - JOES Racing Products How to Properly Use a Penske Shock Tuning Guide to Optimize Your Crossweight is calculated by adding the RF and LR weights and then dividing that sum by the total weight. Dirt Late Models. How To Set Up RC Dirt Oval A Guide - Explained! You've tried springs, shocks, different bars, neutralizing the anti-roll bar, and nothing seems to work. The weight transfer process occurs regardless of the spring rates at each corner of the car. There are several ways race teams adjust corner weight. The rear is 2.125" wider. Setting Ride Height & Corner Weight - Circle Track Magazine - MotorTrend ZJjtX0xiMzjbfb86GLC7qpXBkrSlFeSNVds8hGW514OXUKSxf6kBDIneIL3TzHQV. When looking at corner weighting, the cross weight (diagonal weight) is the most important component. on the right front and left rear tires. If most of the important turns on your The LF needs to go up 0.3125 and the RF needs to go down the same amount. Intercomp SW500 EZ Weigh Scales. Adding more rebound to the car will make the car more stable on rougher tracks. If you raise the ride height at a given corner (put a turn in or add a round of wedge), the weight on that corner will increase, as will the weight on the diagonally opposite corner. Or maybe I read the post wrong. scales. My starting cross weight was 50.6%, I was off 7lbs I Corner Weight Calculator This is used to calculate the corner weight and Wedge. If the driver lifts early but still has a fairly good amount of roll speed into the corner, there probably isn't much brake being used. Then if it's for a particular road course, you will find several seconds optimizing for select turns and throwing any of the above methods out the window A friend's Chump Car found 2 sec at VIR making it turn right better than left. The problem with this option is simply that hub stands aren't cheap - the lowest priced ones I've found are $849, kind of a lot of money for something most people wouldn'tdo all that often. That's all total speculation though. You can also use this technique when adjusting your alignment and scales are connected properly--you can really screw up your suspension settings It puts power down better, and any decent FWD car will be carrying a wheel in the air around a turn anyway, so by default the outside rear gets 100% weight transfer when it's being asked to turn anyway. Caster creates stability as the geometry . 3.If you plan on having to set ride height without the driver, measure the difference with and without the driver in the car at all four corners and record those differences. Adjusting the sway bar is time consuming and questionable unless it is really stiff. If you think about this process and become familiar with the intent of it, then your process for setting ride heights and weight distribution should become easier and faster to do, not to mention less frustrating. Cross weight and left side work backwards in terms of adjustment. Wedge Delta can also be thought of My left rear is something like 150lbs heavier than the right rear, with both fronts even at ~740lbs each on a 2425lb FWD car. I plugged in a bunch of numbers into my calculator and it all checks out. rear. Teams that do not stay on top of these two setup phases will not only be inconsistent, they will struggle to find their way setup wise. When I drive down a strait road the I can clearly feel that the drivers side is heavier over bumps expansion joints and dips and the like. You could also raise the left front or right rear ride heights to do the same thing. Adjust the front up by 0.0625-inch and the rear down by 0.4375-inch. Your car may be designed to run different ride heights than these. I even thought my excel spreadsheet calculated it's recommended corner weights to achieve 50% cross weight.

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