don't know enough about the subject to explain the choices.However, a few days ago I called the dealer to see about an OEM TEV and they said something that made me feel a little bit better; the same part number superceded every application back to the '60s, and that they couldn't do that without engineering signing off on it.Still, I would feel a lot better if I could see something written officially that compared the flow characteristics and performance of r12 and 134a TEVs are concluded that they were interchangeable in automotive applications.If someone knows of such a document I would sleep much better!Walt Edited: Mon September 12, 2005 at 8:13 PM by wamcneil. The mechanical fan & clutch should be checked as well. Is checking the temperature of the in and out of the condensor not the easiest way to tell if it is doing a good job or not? Paul:A 1983 240D should have a York compressor on an OEM system. Helical and Serpentine coils. Unfortunately, the oil only mixes with the refrigerant as a liquid. R134a vs R12 refrigerant? ~ Mahatma Gandhi, Gandhi, An Autobiography, M. K. Gandhi, page 446. and feeds it through an expansion valve. July 3, 2022July 3, 2022. Or is there always room for improvement, the more the merrier. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve Then again, there are two different expansion valves. Lets take you through the advantages, disadvantages, and differences of these two refrigerants a detailed comparison including R12 vs R134a performance. Break out the new gauges and measure hi and lo at 1500rpm, and do the Merc FSM test to see how we're doing performance wise. Should I do the test again with the the aux fan jumpered? So I probably put the highest suggested amount in to be safe. How dumb!I will jumper the aux fan and redo the test. The major reason for the replacement of R12 with R134a was to curb future greenhouse effects. The pressure at low temperatures is nearly the same between 12 and 134a. All pre-97 XJs use systems with the same basic operating principle, although the parts do change a bit. Also, if you want to know what happens if you put R134a in an R12 system, you should first confirm if the R12 system can be replaced or if the refrigerants can be mixed. Existing technology: R134a has been in use in the refrigeration industry for very many years, and theres so much information about the safe use of the product. Bad Car A/C Expansion Valve Symptoms. Heres R12 vs. R134a pressure chart. Its chemical symbol is CH2FCF3. But, if your old compressor has lock-up or if your current expansion valve is not functional it would wise to replace the expansion valve with a valve designed for R134a. Discussion in 'Technical' started by Jsarnold, May 25, 2012. I'm having the same concern. Look at where the lines will end up. -------------------------1983 Mercedes 240D on R12 and WVO!1192 Mercedes 300D 2.5 R134a1993 Toyota Pickup converted to R134a. When the temperature is reduced to-7C or below, the plants ability to cool the airdrops significantly. Some say that a chemical reaction can harm the A/C very badly as R134a reacts with mineral oil in some way. If the charge is low the compressor will cycle on/off in the max AC position. Agram a retevis rt22 password i bastrop county district clerk records el material que oferim als nostres webs. Some 1993 and older R12 systems aren't as 'compatible' as you'd think to switch over. And yes - expansion valves sometimes need replacing if they are sticky - but a proper AC flush should eliminate the need for a new one if it's already in good condition. On the other hand, R12 has a global warming potential of 10,910. CONCLUSIONS The differences in the theoretical C.O.P.H calculated for R12 and R134a are consistent with values quoted in the literature. We chose to use 5-6 ounces of oil to be on the safe side: 3-4 ounces for the compressor, 1 oz of oil for the drier and another ounce of oil for system losses. Also, R134a cylinders are light-blue in color. So, instead of using R12, other better options include R401b, R134a, R401a, etc. Accessories Pumps, Cooling Towers, Evap Condensers, etc, Components Valves, Motors, Condensers, Evaporators, etc, Duct Systems Design, Installation & Practice, Piping Systems Design, Installation & Practice, Control System Design, Installation & Practice, Pro's Forum: National Electrical Code (NEC), Pro's Forum: Calculations & Electrical Theory, Pro's Forum: Electrical Business & Marketing. Automotive Replacement Expansion Valves & Parts; Industrial & Scientific; Customer Reviews. The larger fitting goes on the discharge port and the smaller fitting goes on the suction line or compressor inlet / suction port. It's best to determine on a case-by-case basis while monitoring system pressures and output air temperature. The cable is adjustable at the valve arm. Shorting the plug for the refrigerant switch should run the fan when the compressor is on. R134a is otherwise called 1,1,1,2 Tetrafluoroethane, Florasol 134a, Freon 134a, Norflurane (INN) or HFC 134a. Additionally, R134a was introduced as a replacement for R22 and R12 in high and medium-temperature refrigeration systems like domestic and commercial chillers. However, it was found to be a very bad gas for the environment. By noting the ambient temperature you can look up what the preferred high side pressure should be. They examined the two configurations of capillary tubes i.e. I'm not sure. Biggest you can fit in there is best. For instance you can evacuate FRIGC FR-12 into a refrigerant recovery bottle that has R134a in it or visa versa. And no, you cannot "drain' excess oil out. So to keep things simple and to avoid controversy and politics we have R134a. In short, NO! You may need to adjust the valve in a bit to get desired superheat. Is the information not applicable to the old Pantera system? We consider the the various types alternative refrigerants that are illegal or not approved to be in two sectors: non-flammables and flammables. If you have 10 ounces of oil in the system, that is contributing to the poor performance as well. Look deep into the fins. If you still find it difficult to use R134a in a home AC system, you can check out a comparison of R12 vs R134a fittings to know the refrigerant that best fits the AC system. I don't believe it is but I had a service guy tell me it needs to be done. . The general practice of charging the system with 15% less refrigerant adds to the thermal deficiency of R134a. The Wikipedia explanation for expansions valves cited in Frank's thread says that the gas inside the bulb in the metering valve is the same as the refrigerant in the system. Safe but sorry! Before R12 was replaced with R134a in 1995, it was mostly used in trucks and cars. Temp switch works the aux fan. At 40, it is 35psi, which is a difference of 8.9psi. Tamb oferim en VOSC el contingut daquestes sries que no es troba doblat, com les temporades deDoctor Who de la 7 en endavant,les OVA i els especials de One Piece i molt ms. Back in that era, my business associates drove those things, brand new, and maybe I should take my Cadillac instead, no they wouldn't be caught dead in a Caddy, people of our esteem should be driving an MB. The expansion valve(Tx) is in the car at the inlet line to the evaporator with compressors you best get advice from an ac specialist shop as the differences could be the gas that it pumps some systems use R12 and others use R134a or later gas yes R1234yf Freon gas can be replaced by R134a; the newer systems were designed with this in mind so no, there will be no damage to the compressor but some time in . With new R12 no longer being manufactured, the market price soared to $100/pound. Read on for more information about using automotive r134a in a refrigerator and vice versa. absorb by the evaporator to insure all liquid refrigerant entering the evaporator. Post photos, respond to polls and access other special features. You can also check the Aux fan in your case. Plus, not releasing the chemical into the air is morally justifiable. 4) Inconsistent Airflow. This is the part that controls the system pressures. -------------------------1983 Mercedes 240D on R12 and WVO!1192 Mercedes 300D 2.5 R134a1993 Toyota Pickup converted to R134a, Hi pdrayton- If you can remember the oil capacity that you found in all your research and post that, then bohica and others can have a better idea if you have too much; see if you can find that info! I could easily be over at least 2 - 3 ounces over on the oil. Most of all the differences gravitate to longevity, functionality, and safety. So if the TXV is OK, and the too much oil situation is not a big problem, then I wonder why the compressor is switching off after about 15 minutes of cooling? R-134a XV for R-134a use. My turn to LOL - greasiesel! It runs between the condenser outlet, receiver/drier unit and expansion valve at the firewall. 30 deg is pretty coldSystems generally run between 40 and 43 deg. Your old hoses of course will not fit. We suggest dumping the old refrigerant oil in a clean container and inspect the oil for sludge or waxing (old oil that has gelled) and contamination (metal particles). Whether R134a performs as well as R12 in any given a/c system depends upon system components and the amount of R134a used. In sum, R12 has done more bad than good. Large temperature difference between expansion valve inlet and outlet oReplace expansion valve Air . The only mechanical differences between an R12 system and an R134a system are that R134a systems typically have larger condensers and more powerful compressors. R12 is otherwise called dichlorodifluoromethane is a colorless gas (chlorofluorocarbon halomethane (CPC) that is used as an aerosol spray propellant and a refrigerant, and is soluble in organic solvents. Add to cart. Please enter a valid email address for yourself. Dimensioning of refrigeration components - part 2 - Danfoss The ratings for evaporator temperatures 40F, 20F, -10F, -40F in the capacity tables are in accordance with ANSI/ARI = R134a Charge Level R12 Expansion Valve = 201 830 06 84 R134A Expansion Valve = 201 830 04 84 Is there a difference after all? For example, at an evap temp of 30 (your daughter's system is probably running around 25-28 saturated in order to give a 32 duct temp), the pressure of R-134a is 26.1psi. I dont know why the cost difference between compressors is so huge, though. We've updated our forums!Click here to visit the new forum, Year: 1983Make: MercedesModel: 240DEngine Size: 2.4Refrigerant Type: R12Ambient Temp: 90Pressure Low: 35Pressure High: ?Country of Origin: United States, Hi, this is my first post, so please take it easy on the noob. R-134a can actually cool better than R-12 in a well designed R-134a system as it has better thermoconductive properties, but all the high pressure issues have to be addressed.But even when these cars were brand new, didn't cool worth a damned, recall almost dying in one in Las Vegas at the time, but a good way to lose weight with gallons of perspiration pouring out, just don't let that drip on the seats, that is inappropriate. However, R134a is better than R12. This is an electronic tool that sucks in air through a tube and across a sensor. A/C receiver difference between R12 and R134a? | NSX Prime Hmmmm. The #1 question asked by NEW MEMBERS. I remember I had the wrong seals and it leaked some oil, so I put some more in.Bohica - I tested the pressures. Your decision could be made based on economics, environmental concerns, or both. They plug all the time. ESP when a compressor has frozen. With R134a you do not rely on the site glass. . difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve R134a is called tetrafluoroethane (HFC). That way I will have reduced the oil by about 1/3 (assuming the oil is mixed evenly through the system). It can be used applications like walk-in coolers, food and dairy display cases, domestic refrigerators, and beverage dispensers and vending machines. This implies that the discharge pressure of the compressor should be moderate so it can produce the refrigerants condensation in the condenser at the atmospheric temperature. Also called the orifice tube. After the initial charge the system is then tweeked : you determine the optimum amount of refrigerant to match your system by monitoring the a/c outlet vent temperature and the high side pressure as you add or remove refrigerant. R134a has a smaller molecule than R12 so R134a will leak out sooner than R12. Is that why expansion valves are specific to R12 or R134A? The smoking question & vent airflow indicate that the evaporator is fairly clean - and you are aware of the importance of that.The heater valve stops the flow, but there is always some conduction heating. This refers to BTU's (heat) moved per pound of refrigerant moved. How an A/C Expansion Valve Works. Kommentare . I put one in my old daily driver '79 Chevy tank (r-12), and it really made a difference. R134a is called tetrafluoroethane (HFC). Its duty is to convert toxic gasses produced by the engine into A brake cleaner is a powerful solvent for cleaning dirt from the brakes and other car components. How thermostatic expansion valves work | Danfoss If you find any of these conditions you will want to liquid flush (with dedicated AC flush solution) all the lines, condensers, evaporator (remove the expansion valve) before you proceed further. However, R12 refrigerants are still used as fire retardants in aircraft and submarines. Pray I can let some oil out of the compressor without losing my precious R12. The global warming potential measures the amount of heat trapped by any gas compared to the amount of heat trapped by the same amount of carbon dioxide. Can I Use Automotive r134a in a Refrigerator | An Expert Guide difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve . Well, I'm not sure it is 'fine' - it doesn't cool very well in 95F weather. Just had knee surgery yesterday, so I"M not exactly hopping around too well. Spray it deep, and let it sit for a few minutes. Make sure to wear safety gloves, goggles, and shoes when theres a possibility of exposure to the chemical (R134a). With tube & fin condensors in MVAC applications there is never "too much" airflow. They have no moving parts. R404a is a zeotropic blend with a temp glide , because of the mixture of 2 or more refrigerants. Note that passwords are case-sensitive. Jun 19, 2007. I'm thinking I might have put too much oil in the system - everywhere i read had a different amount - the manufacturer of the compressor, the MB factory service manual, online forums. Nevertheless, if your application is configured only for R12, then you can use it or consider replacing the applications engine. . A vacuum pump, a refrigerant recover system, quality service gauge set with both low and high side gagues, and much more besides the lessons to learn what to do and what not to do. The bad thing is I don't know what to do about it. You do not have to split up the 5-6 oz of oil and add it to each component, just simply put it all in the compressor as it will move throughout the whole system once the system is operational. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve What effect would it have on performance, if any?At the moment, the ac is acting up - will work fine for about 15 minutes and then slowly the vent temperatures rise until the compressor switches off. The compressors used by refrigeration plants to compress gas require oil to help lubricate its moving parts. Can I use the one for the R-12? R 134A is designed for the high demands of an automobile AC and cannot be used on refrigerators due to pressure differences. We recently created this blog site to enable us to share our knowledge with other automotive mechanics and car owners. What is a T/C?4. A. Pressure/temperature table for R12, R134a, and R513A is shown in Figure 1. . Yes, I don't trust the heater valve either. GWP is a measurement of Greenhouse Gases and their effect on Global Warming. The most common influences which effect the capability of R134a to perform well are the condenser, in some cases the the superheat setting of the expansion valve or the amount of R134a. Thanks for the input. AC R12 to R134A Conversion | MR2 Owners Club Forum The larger line at the expansion valve is the suction line. Boiling Point: R134a refrigerants boiling point is -26.3C (-15.34F). A/C receiver difference between R12 and R134a? The aux fan didn't switch on though and I didn't check the high side temperature. Hot coolant migrates up through the core by convection (is that the word? CLUTCH CYCLING SWITCH. But I don't want to waste your time. You either get a system that will function well with R1234yf or get any other type. And, unfortunately a small high side pressure gauge on a short hose. In large application systems, the vapor density of this refrigerant is usually high. I have one can left, so maybe a plan can be made. Low refrigerating effect per pound: In comparison to other refrigerants, the refrigerating effect of R12 per pound is low. PaulJerky King -------------------------1983 Mercedes 240D on R12 and WVO!1192 Mercedes 300D 2.5 R134a1993 Toyota Pickup converted to R134a. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve. And I lied about the compressor switches on this car - there are 2 switches on the drier - a temp and a pressure switch. Took me a while to figure that one out, and how to say that. Therefore, the R12 refrigerant is illegal, and emitting it is illegal. 3) A/C Compressor Always On.

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